You've come up through some serious venues…the Pitcher Inn and Shelburne Farms and such. What made you decide it was the right time to strike out on your own? And has anything about owning a business surprised you?

“There are a lot of great hospitality ventures in Vermont. And when Dedalus folded, I looked around a bit, and there weren't a wealth of openings for people with my skill sets. This is my 41st year of doing restaurants and hospitality and wine, and I sort of reached that ‘now or never’ realization.

“If I wanted to stay in hospitality at the level I had been doing it, I would have potentially needed to leave Vermont. And I have no interest in ever leaving Vermont. I went to Nantucket for 10 months, and while Nantucket is lovely…not for me. I found myself missing Vermont with pretty much every fiber of my being. Every available moment when I was not working, I was buying ferry tickets and renting a car, using what little time I had to get back to Vermont. At a certain point, if you're smart, you start listening to yourself.

“For all of its challenges, I'd never seen a place like Dedalus that was set up so well for what it did. 
The way they set up the retail space was really well done. The way the restaurant was organized was really pretty, and it had character, which is always something I'm looking for... I'm not disposed to working in generic spaces. I'm always looking for something that's a little bit more unusual, a little funkier, and it sort of scratched that itch, too. 
So that was that.

“In terms of what's different…I'm used to working 60, 70, 80-hour work weeks. I've done it the bulk of my adult life. But nothing really prepares you for being the person responsible for making sure payroll gets made and the lights stay on. I always joke that I worked every place I did as though I owned it. The difference between working a place like you own it and actually being responsible at the end of the day for making sure 18 people are able to make rent next month…that's a commitment I take really, really seriously. It's the thing that keeps me up at night. Nothing prepares you for it, because there's nothing else like it.

“That being said, I can't imagine wanting to do anything else. After 41 years in this industry, it's still my very favorite thing in the world to do…attending to guests and being on the retail floor and being on the restaurant floor, and keeping all the balls in the air. And working with a committed group of hospitality professionals…it's been great.”

You take the wine business as seriously as anybody. When you're training your staff to talk to guests about wine, how do you teach them to do that in a way that gets people to open up rather than intimidating them?

“I'll be honest…it's one that I wish I was better at. Part and parcel of keeping all the balls in the air means having less time to do all the things I want to do, including the training part. That being said, I'm so lucky to work with staff that are really committed to increasing their knowledge about wine and committed to providing good hospitality. Ultimately, I like to think it comes down to good hiring. I can only be so many places at one time…hire really smart people, hire good people, hire nice people. And that goes a long, long way.

“Ultimately, I rely on our staff being hardworking, good people, honest, and the sort of folks that like other people. Guests will accept you not knowing a thing. You can very easily say, ‘I don't know the answer to that, but let me find someone that can answer that question for you.’ Guests will forgive you for that. But they won't forgive you for being a snob. Guests won't forgive poor hospitality. They won't forgive you making them feel bad about the information that they have.

“People have a very low tolerance for gatekeeping…and this is an industry that has had a gatekeeping mentality around wine and service for a really long time. Some of the snobbiest folks I've ever met have been sommeliers and wine professionals. And also some of the most gracious, generous, joyful people have been around wine and service. So it is just finding the right people.”

Is there a common mistake you see people making when they're picking wine?

“I don't believe in such a thing as a mistake when people are using their personal taste to buy something to enjoy. As long as the thing they end up getting is something that gives them enjoyment…no mistakes made.

“The one thing I'll say is, I think people sometimes miss an opportunity. Most servers, if you were to ask them, ‘What do you like on this list? What wine are you really excited about? Where's the best value, dollar for dollar?’…most servers are gonna tell you exactly where that thing lives. And they're going to be excited about it, and they're going to be able to communicate that excitement.

“I think guests sometimes miss out on some really great values, perhaps because they've had experience in other settings where servers and soms immediately reach for the most expensive thing. That's very much a move in the industry sometimes. But most servers, most soms, if you put it out there…’Hey, what's the best bang for the buck right now, or what do you really like with what I'm eating?’…most restaurant pros are going to try to turn you on to something really cool.”

Bonus: You're on a desert island with one bottle of wine and one album. What are you picking?

“It's Bad Brains' first album, circa 1982. Bad Brains were a Rastafarian hardcore group from D.C. Still my favorite album to listen to…I was listening to it on my way into work today. Really loud, really fast. Just a lot of fun.

“As for wine, if I'm on a desert island, whatever I have on hand is gonna be just fine. But if I had to choose what I'd wish my last bottle to be, it's either a 1970 Vega Sicilia Unico or a 1970 Willi Schaefer Graacher Domprobst. Either one of those will do admirably.

“But to be honest, if neither of those are available and there's wine available…it'll be that. I've been lucky enough to drink some really, really amazing wines. I'm just as happy with things that are merely charming or merely delicious, no matter how prestigious or pricey they are.”